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It Figures Podcast: S4:E10 – A Guide to Employee and Workforce Retention

Join CRI Birmingham Partner, Robert Coker, and CRI Jackson Partner, Larry May, as they dive into what makes a successful employee retention program, how to foster a productive culture and climate in your business, and how to nurture new hires.

Speaker 1:

From Carr Riggs & Ingram, this is It Figures: The CRI Podcast, an accounting advisory and industry-focused podcast for business and organization leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone who is looking to go beyond the status quo.

Robert Coker:

Thank you for tuning in to It Figures Podcast today. We’re going to talk a little bit about strategies to understand the workforce as well as retain them. And I think it’s really just a pressing matter for all of us with these shortages in the workforce. My person sitting across from me is Larry May out of the Jackson office.

Larry May:

Yep. Robert, I appreciate that. Yeah, I’ve been working out of the Jackson office, I work in the construction industry line here, have for 20-something years now. So yeah, I’ve worked with a lot of contractors.

Robert Coker:

I’m out of the Birmingham office, out of the University of Alabama. I’ve worked with contractors. I’ll sort of get to it later. My grandfather was a contractor, so I had that early exposure to have an affinity toward it. Maybe I just really wasn’t worried about working that hard though.

Larry May:

Yeah, well, right now, the big challenge to everyone, our profession, contractors, restaurants, everything, is a workforce shortage. And so one of the statistics that are out there are there is about 10 million unfilled jobs in the US right now, and there are only about 6 million unemployed people. So that huge gap is making a huge problem for everyone. In December of ’22, the US employment rate was at three and a half percent, which is extremely low, and practically no unemployment. And there are an estimated number of about 10,000 workers retiring every day as the baby boomers age. So the composition of the workers leaving the market are the last of the silent generation and the baby boomers. Currently 40% of workers plan to leave their job in the next four to six months.

The great resignation that we saw during COVID and afterwards has just really shown a shift in the workers overall, and the workforce overall. I think everybody has had challenges with that. And I think some of the biggest challenges that I’ve seen, in both the CPA world as well as construction, is the fact that right now you have workers that are really, they’re highly driven by technology. They want a lot of flexibility. They want a flexible work schedule, remote working. And in the construction world, that’s just not an option. You have to show up on a job site to work. And a lot of my clients I’ve talked to, they’re saying it’s kind of the tail is wagging the dog. We’re all doing what we need to do to keep workers and it’s just a real challenge.

It’s also a challenge because as the older workers are deciding to retire, they’re not passing that skillset. There’s no one to pass it to. And if it is, there’s just a real challenge there to transfer that knowledge to the people that are available.

Robert Coker:

That’s a piece that we see so often that’s true, and has been forever. The owners of the group, the boomers primarily, and then some younger than that, have always wanted to take a strong grip on who’s leading what. And so giving up power has been a real challenge for them to begin with. Not to mention the generational issues that we’re going to talk about today, really pose just a huge obstacle for that transition to even occur.

Larry May:

Absolutely. And you see it from the top all the way down. But everybody is looking at their jobs in a different way, and I think the challenges, particularly with the younger generations. I mean, currently you’ve got up to five generations working, which has never happened in history before. And because of the different generations’ backgrounds, they’re driven by a different set of priorities. And I think what we often kid about the Millennials, when they were coming in there was all these big jokes going around, but people are looking at it and they no longer want to ?live to work. They want to work to live. And that’s in every single industry. So it’s very challenging to even understand what’s driving them. What do you do to motivate them, to keep them, to make them want to work harder, to strive? And it just seems like it’s a baffling experience.

Robert Coker:

And they’re challenged in the sense, these owners, they don’t want to answer to everyone as far as address every subset of needs. They’re looking in and saying, “Well, look, the way it used to work is you show up to work, you work hard, and that’s my expectation.” And that’s where they leave it.

Larry May:

Right.

Robert Coker:

And that just absolutely doesn’t work today. It doesn’t work in our firm and it doesn’t work in the construction workforce. Because they’re really hamstrung because of their inability to accept this change. They don’t really want to manage that process or cater to anyone, is really the answer.

Larry May:

And some of the stuff that I think has caused a lot of this also is we are living in America in a shrinking population. I mean, when I was a kid, and I’m a Gen X-er or whatever, there were two and a half kids per family. I mean, now we’re down to, I think it’s 1.2 kids per family, so we’re not even replacing ourselves. So the generation retiring with the baby boomers, there’s just not enough people coming behind to pull into the workforce. With the kind of change in immigration policies over the last six years, we’re not attracting as many of the immigrant workers as we have in the past. So we’ve got to be more innovative. And I think in construction, in addition to the remote stuff, the kind of lag in embracing technology has created a problem. So technology may not be able to shore that up. It can help, but I don’t know that it’s going to be able to completely overcome some of the shortages that we’re currently seeing. So Robert, I think you have some strategies that..,.

Robert Coker:

I guess looking for these new workers, I mean it’s challenging. Every day, we face it. Like you were saying earlier, we’ve had so much labor move away from the labor pool. They, 48% of the people that left the workforce, when they come back, they don’t even come back to their same profession.

So you have that issue, but looking at that, I think the strategies that we are seeing I guess related to that… I mean, I guess you have to understand what are the groups that we’re really looking at? Millennials, Gen Zs, Gen X-ers.

You’ve got these groups, the Gen X-ers, anywhere from 42 years old to 57. What they’re oriented toward is really, they’re independent, tech savvy, pragmatic. But a lot of what they are used to is operating independently. Because those were your latchkey people back in the day, and they were used to having their own independence and being more self-managing, right?

Then you got, outside of the Gen X-ers, you’ve got the Millennials and we talked about those very often. That’s 27 years old to 41 years old or so. But they’re so different because they’re inherently optimistic, collaborative. They want to work with people. So often we assign this, and whether it’s true or not, it gets sort of labeled that way, where they’re impatient, they feel entitled, and that makes for a difficult thing to manage as well. So they’re sort of more high maintenance, if you will, in that regard. You can-

Larry May:

Well, everybody wants flexibility now, too.

Robert Coker:

Sure.

Larry May:

And it’s like, as I said, with construction, that’s just real hard to have a lot of flexibility. But the younger generation, that’s one of their primary things that they’re looking for.

Robert Coker:

That also brings to mind, we say they’re technology-oriented, which by default, in the way in which they operate, they’re doing that through a digital medium rather than the face-to-face that the people above them really want to have. But they’re going, “Well, we don’t want that.”

Larry May:

Right. You can’t get them to make a phone call.

Robert Coker:

So you say, “Well, I don’t understand why you think an email or a text is going to accomplish the job when there’s face-to-face time.” You and I know this, right? We see it even in our youngers, and it’s our job to train them up to go, “Well, let me show you the importance and the difference in having these face-to-face.” Often, I bring these young staff along with me so they can see that process at hand and go, “Well, maybe that really was more effective.” So I think maybe changing their mindset a little bit away from the digital realm helps as well.

You know, you got the Gen Zs, that’s all the way from 10 years old to 26 years old. Theirs is very much oriented toward… You talk about technology fluent, well, they’re dependent on technology, which is not a bad thing. Again, what we’re talking about today, contractors need to be oriented toward, if you’ve got a shortage, you’ve got to make up the shortfall somehow. If you’re going to have these people in the workforce, you sort of got to cater to their need, which is toward technology. And I think that that’s the beauty of that, is there is some real leap frogs. I’ve watched some interesting things at that recent conference you and I went to where they’re using technology, with BIM and things of that nature, to really almost do it for you. And robotics, as far as that goes, to do it. Well, they’re the drivers of that. They’re the ones that are going to embrace that technology. So that-

Larry May:

Well, one thing that is always helpful is every generation has something that can help the others. The older generations can help mentor the younger ones on the face-to-face and the importance of talking to people and all that. But I think the older generations that are in there can really learn so much from the younger generations about technology. Because whats’ the old joke? You got a computer problem, find the youngest person in the room to fix it because they know how to do everything. I mean, I can’t-

Robert Coker:

Yeah, they’ve had iPads since birth, right?

Larry May:

I can turn it off and on. Doesn’t work, I’m out of… I don’t know what else to do. So I think there’s something we can learn, all the generations can learn from each other in working together. Pull the strengths from all of that. I think the key there is engaging and being, as I say, a good mentor program to help transfer that knowledge both ways.

Robert Coker:

And we talk about these differences. And then some of the strategies that sort of come to mind, we’ve talked about it. Having a mobile-friendly workplace, even as far as even the recruiting process. What they want to be able to do is fill out a digital application and get the feedback immediately. They’re not going to wait around two weeks to hear back from you like that used to work. Theirs is instantaneous gratification, right? But offering the full suite of programs as far as perks, especially flexible schedules and ability to do remote work. Again, we talk about that in the contractor space, that’s next to impossible. You’ve got to be on the job site. And that’s another piece that’s not necessarily appealing to some of them, and that’s probably one of the reasons you have seen them gravitate away from that workforce. And we got to look for ways to get them back.

So having all these programs, as far as benefits, in place, 401ks, all the suite of health insurance is so important these days, and looking for ways to do that. And so the other piece that they’re looking for is a way to feel like they’re doing something important, and that the companies they’re looking at have a sort of philanthropic piece to them, that they’re giving back something to the community. And they do this as a group and they get some real bang for their buck out of that. The branding that you get out there.

Larry May:

I think one thing construction has to offer over other is you do have kind of an immediate gratification. You’re seeing something come up out of the ground and be built. And I think that is something that is an advantage.

Robert Coker:

The work-life balance, as far as that goes, and I know that’s a difficult process. We face it in our industry, the contractors face it in theirs. You have deadlines, you have weather delays and other things that drive you to have to say, “Well, we’ve got to have you on site for longer hours.” And that’s a challenge, for sure. And I think, really, being open and listening to what these younger generations… They want to have some input in the process, right? I mean, I think all the way through it, I think they want to have this feedback. “How am I doing?” Whereas you and I grew up in an era where you got out, you did the job, your feedback was-

Larry May:

You probably going to get negative feedback.

Robert Coker:

Right. That’s right. That’s the only feedback you got. Well, they’re not going to accept that. That’s just not going to happen anymore. And having a path laid out for them to have some upward mobility. “What does it look like for me to get to this next level, and how soon can I do that?” Because they all want to be promoted, and they all want to get paid handsomely. And that’s just a fact of life. I mean, we do, too, right?

Larry May:

Exactly.

Robert Coker:

That’s where we were. We wanted to know, but ours was much more nebulous. “Well, I don’t know, exactly.” You wouldn’t get a defined path for growth, whereas in contracting, you have a pretty standard path as far as how you start out, unless you’ve already got a skill set coming from another place. So I think training is another key piece for them as well.

Larry May:

Absolutely.

Robert Coker:

Having some background skills and enhancing those skills. Because they want to be attractive. They are the asset. Just like we find in our business, that’s one of the things that they want. The other piece is going after maybe a subset of the population. You start thinking about the idea that all we’ve ever heard the mantra of is “You got to go to college and get your education.” Where you look at the statistics, well, only 58% of the people even graduate after starting college. So not everybody is necessarily cut out to be a college student, because maybe that’s not their gift. And they may be plenty bright, but it’s just not their focus.

Larry May:

Right, and one of the things that might be a help in recruiting people with that is that the 58% that didn’t graduate normally have student loan debt.

Robert Coker:

Sure.

Larry May:

So that might be some kind of incentive in your comp package to help recruit them in. But I think the bigger thing is you’ve got to change the perception that the trades are not a great profession. I mean, you know, I-

Robert Coker:

It’s not sexy, right?

Larry May:

Right. Well, I don’t have a contractor client that isn’t a heck of a lot wealthier than me, whether they went to college or not.

Robert Coker:

Sure.

Larry May:

But I think starting at a very, very young age and moving forward, in changing that perception. And one of the things that the Junior League women’s organization started in Jackson, because they had a female contractor on their board, was this Touch A Truck, to get little kids there. They’re fascinated with dump trucks and bulldozers and all that. You just start changing it at the ground level and then try to keep that going forward, to make the trades look not only acceptable, but realize they’re very well paid, and it’s got a lot of upward mobility involved in that. And just the whole chance for success that you have by being in the trades, and how important that is, and how you can do as well as anybody that does go to college.

Robert Coker:

Or better.

Larry May:

Or better. And one thing is they surely can’t export construction work. They can’t send your job to China or anywhere else.

Robert Coker:

Well, it’s always been fascinating, having been around a contractor my whole life. My grandfather was. I mean, I watched him and I was like, “Well, that’s pretty cool.” But one of the things that he always said is “Really, this requires a lot of dedication and hard work.” I saw him get up every day at 4:00 AM. That’s not necessarily going to be what you’re going to get today. You’re not going to get these 12 hour work days and expect to retain people. It’s just not going to happen. So it takes a different mix. And we’ve sort of looked at some of the things that maybe you attract them, but a bigger dilemma, I guess, not only is it hard to attract them, then you got to retain them, right?

Larry May:

That’s right. Well, one thing before we leave. Attract them. I think the other thing that I’ve seen that they’ve really focused on is the Second Chance programs. And I’ve seen… I know that the Mississippi Construction Education Foundation really focuses on giving people a second chance because they know once they get out of… You know, you don’t want the recidivism rate that the prisons have, you want someone to get out and be able to make a good living, and never go back. Because it costs us a fortune in taxes to pay for that. And so they’ve really focused in on trying to the people that really want a better life, getting them involved in these programs. Because they’ve got a job. Once they finish getting a trade, they’ve got a job waiting for them because everybody’s fighting for them.

Robert Coker:

That’s right.

Larry May:

So I think that’s one more thing that is a good strategy to try to attract more workers.

Robert Coker:

And like I say, those things pose the challenges, and then you get to the point where you finally got them on board. You finally got them working for you, and you go, “Okay, what do I have to do to keep them?”

Again, we sort of touched on it earlier, they want to find some meaning in the work that they’re doing. Obviously, compensation is a huge factor today. The flexibility piece, maybe there is some ability to work somewhat remotely, depending on the type of work that you have, right? Maybe they’re oriented toward going toward the technology piece and doing the BIM work, or maybe the robotics work, and figuring that way that they can actually enter this marketplace. Add a suite for health and wellbeing. There’s a focus on making sure they’ve got an answer for childcare and things of that nature because that’s a huge issue. And in development, they want to be more valuable.

Some of the other things, the experience factors that drive retention or even attrition, is work expectations. Their work environment is so crucial these days that we get lost and forget about, well, is this… We step back and look at it and say, “What is it about this place that’s good for the workers, that not only keeps them there, but others see it and go, ‘I’ve got this great work environment where it’s a team-oriented type of concept. You’ve got very supportive people. You got people that are really into managing and growing people'”?

I tell the staff all the time, and it’s the same in contractors, their job is to train the person underneath them so they can advance. And it works all the way down. Just like it’s our job to go out and recruit qualified staff that can one day take over our book of business. That’s how we retire.

Larry May:

That’s right.

Robert Coker:

So looking at that, I think it’s really-

Larry May:

I think one other thing to add in there is just to make a sense of community among your workers, too, where… I think you touched on it a little bit, but to make them feel like they’re part of something really great. As I said, construction, you have the advantage in that you get the instant gratification and things of that, but also a sense of community where you’re doing things. Try to do something, whether charitable or whatever, to get your workers together to pursue something fun and let them know each other and develop a sense of community.

Robert Coker:

Yeah, after work type activities-

Larry May:

Absolutely.

Robert Coker:

… Are crucial these days to keep them. It’s sort of the glue that holds them together, right? Because it’s really usually not the boss that drives their satisfaction as much as it is the community of people that they work with, right?

Larry May:

That’s right.

Robert Coker:

And then having the independence to really, truly think and give feedback. I think we talked about getting constructive feedback, not necessarily always focusing on the negative. They’ve got to have that these days. You can call it stroking, if you will.

Larry May:

We all do.

Robert Coker:

We all need that. Did we all get it? Probably not. Get rid of some of the bureaucracy and don’t make it based on, “Okay, how long have you been here?” dictates where you are. Well, if you’re better than the person that’s been there 10 years, you ought to be rewarded for that, and you ought to have that ability, rather than all being tenure-based.

Larry May:

And paid time off. I think that’s a big thing where that is just necessary, particularly with the younger generation. It’s great to work hard, but you want to play hard, too. And they certainly want that.

Robert Coker:

There’s so many things that we can do out there today that really help us understand them better. And really, there’s classes on this to really help you engage. I think there’s some value in having courses that really teach you how to manage people. And I think that’s what we’re even doing in our world, as well as in the construction world, of going… We’ve talked about it, we’ve got five generations of people, and they all have different needs and subsets, and how they’re driven is a totally different subset than maybe what we were used to. It’s not just a cookie cutter anymore. There’s five different need sets, and you have to manage accordingly, right?

Larry May:

Absolutely.

Robert Coker:

I think that really sort of wraps up today. You got anything to add to that, Larry?

Larry May:

I think you covered it.

Robert Coker:

Well, I enjoyed my time with you and certainly appreciate the time together.

Larry May:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

If you want more CRI Insights or are interested in learning about our firm, please visit our website at CRICPA.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of It Figures: The CRI Podcast. You can subscribe to It Figures on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you prefer to listen to your podcasts. If you liked what you heard today, please leave us a review.

 

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